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come on baby come on come on there's a

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carburetor in this or something come on

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode number 225.

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that must be some sort of a

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milestone

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for the 10th of february 2013. richard

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saunders here with you from sydney

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australia where a big storm is just

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about hit according to the weather radar

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and listening outside the rain is just

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about to start pelting down time to

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batten down the hatches

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but before i do that i better tell you

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about this week's skeptic zone i catch

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up with penny chan our reporter from

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long beach in california now just

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recently penny went to hong kong to

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visit some family

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did she discover any woo any alternative

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type treatments

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well to lessen the suspension she did

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and she tried a few that report coming

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up at the top of the show

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following that we have a little uh

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teaser trailer for a very uh worthwhile

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project going on at the moment called an

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honest liar

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a documentary about the amazing randy

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and how you can help

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coming up soon

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after that maynard's spooky action

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maynard chats with ben newsom the

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director of a wonderful science outreach

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program here in australia called physics

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education

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spelled fi zed ics

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physics education science shows and

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educational products

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with a real wow factor it says and after

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that maynard catches up with pub goers

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here in sydney skeptics in the pub

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and ask the big question the big

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question this month is what do you think

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intuition is

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what is intuition

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i've often wondered myself find out what

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pub goers think

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intuition is and oh yes i just heard a

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big crack of thunder outside hmm

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now listeners in australia might have

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seen an article

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uh about

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psychics in the weekend newspaper

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psychics in the suburbs i think it was

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called something like that where i'm

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quoted and james randy and chrissy

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wilson and chris french are all quoted

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oddly enough they

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described me as having a square jaw and

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i've copped no end of

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ribbing about that comment ever since

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i'll put a link to that article about

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psychics in the suburbs people who think

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or claim they can talk with the dead

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i'll put a link to that item on the show

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notes or you can just google

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sydney morning herald good weekend

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a quick correction brought to me by my

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friends in uh canberra i said that

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there'd be a pub meeting on the 12th

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that's not true

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that's something else going on on the

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12th not a skeptics in the pub but if

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www.canberrassskeptics.org.au to find

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out when their skeptics in the pub is

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and other free lectures i know there are

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some coming up very soon but now it's

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time for me to write

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well actually no i before i run

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downstairs and look for something to uh

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drink or eat or whatever

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a little odd thing at the beginning of

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the show with maynard trying to start a

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car engine

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i wonder if that's got something to do

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with solar flare

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hmm

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i wonder

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all right enough hints

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i will run downstairs and batten down

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the hatches what should i have

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what do sailors have at sea to button

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down the hatches they rub

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a little glass of rum while you enjoy

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here's penny chan

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and joining me on the line from

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beautiful long beach in california oh

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the land i dream of

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penny chan hello penny hi richard it's

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good to see you because uh for the

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benefit of of our listeners we are

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actually looking at each other now we're

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we're video conferencing it's fantastic

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you can see into my brand new kitchen oh

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i can see your brand new kitchen and

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what are the

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minimalist doesn't match the rest of my

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house but i showed the cleanest room in

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my house so

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so i'm interviewing you from your

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kitchen how appropriate the skeptics and

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there's always after noms that's all i

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can say yeah yeah and i'm right by my

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fridge too as you can see there's not a

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lot in it listeners you don't know what

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you're missing out on it's a wonderful

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brand new sparkling kitchen complete

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with fridge

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and pennies there in her stripy red top

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looking fantastic

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thank you

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now penny um it's been a little while

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since the skeptic zones caught up with

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you and i'm delighted to say that you

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you too are taking part in our secret

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project solar flare which is very

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exciting yeah top secret and you've

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heard a little um a sneak peek of it

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yeah

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and i think

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you thought it was a very interesting

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project indeed but more about that in a

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few weeks

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but uh now since we've heard from you

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last time you've had a very interesting

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time indeed you went to hong kong and i

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must say the last time i was in hong

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kong i think i was about

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four years old way back in 1969 so i

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don't really remember too much about it

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what what what were your impressions of

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hong kong and why did you go there it's

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where my dad is from and um i just in

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december i graduated from university as

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a you know graduation gift my dad said

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hey

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would you like to go to hong kong so i

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said yes

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i went and it i had a fantastic time it

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was ten days there

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um i saw all the sights there's so much

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to see

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um it's a wonderful wonderful city it's

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got such a huge population crammed into

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a very small area so i will say it was

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quite crowded but

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a good place i mean i had a really good

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time it was really interesting um it's a

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place that is

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really a good place to explore a lot of

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alternative medicinal practices shall we

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say well i guess i shouldn't i shouldn't

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sound too surprised um because we always

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hear about things like chinese

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traditional medicine or herbal medicine

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and things like this but i've

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i've never really been in a place where

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it's been

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everywhere and i guess hong kong is sort

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of like that yes and what's interesting

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is that it is one of the most

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modern cities on the planet you know

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it's up there with los angeles new york

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and london and sydney so it's very very

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modern in every sense possible it's

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actually really gorgeous there the

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infrastructure and you know the

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buildings and and the transportation is

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amazing that public transport is put it

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really makes me feel ashamed of how

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crappy the metro line is here in l.a um

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you should you should try it here in

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sydney i tell you what

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isn't that bad well it could be better

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oh yes and some of those trains aren't

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air conditioned in the summertime i

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would but let's get back to the real

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topic of the conversation being in hong

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kong what did you experience in the way

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of interesting um

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well can we say traditional or can we

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say new age sort of practices

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okay well i don't want to like you know

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make a big generalization and say you

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know everybody in hong kong is so

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superstitious people will not

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outright ignore modern medicine

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practices

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they will go to the hospital if their

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leg is broken or something but they put

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equal stock

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of

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many people for example the people that

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i stayed with there or i stayed with um

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family when i was there um mostly and

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they put an equal stock in

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um

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it's not alternative to them

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for example say sorry let me be clear

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what i mean by alternative

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herbal medicine um things like

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acupuncture massage therapy reflexology

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um they are just as willing to turn to

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that

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as they would to

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modern

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you know what we would say medicine

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practices um i did have the opportunity

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um to go with

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my cousin to she so she's been having

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for example she's had this persistent

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cough for the past few years just this

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you know kind of chesty throaty coughing

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that's been bothering her and she says

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that her um

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modern western trained

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doctor is not able to help her so for

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the past few months or so she's been

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going to see

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um

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a

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english word for it is it's not bone

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setter it's it's this guy who

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okay so we went to this

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this house you know on the outskirts of

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town

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and

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it's this apartment on the lowest floor

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and he's this this old man has this like

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front reception office and back in the

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back room there's a bed with some with

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then as charts on the wall with you know

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acupuncture meridian

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charted out

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and then there's a bed and then next to

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on the table there's like a bottle of

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brandy i'm like oh my god what's gonna

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go on here she's like no just watch so

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she gets on the bed on her stomach and

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he starts to like twist her arm and

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shoulder back and she's squealing and

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they're like no no it's okay and he's

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he's fixing her like uh it looks like it

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hurts and she's like yes it hurts but

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it's good for me like oh no so after

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about five minutes of that i've heard

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just like

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i'm like stop she came out and he handed

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her some of these

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round green pills that are basically you

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know herbal remedies and she just

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swallowed them she's like so yeah i go

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in and he twists my arms up into a

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pretzel and then he gives me these pills

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and i feel better

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wow

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okay

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good

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well i can't quite see the connection

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between twisting somebody's arms and

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green pills and a cough

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and i noticed that she kind of still

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coughs a little bit but

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whatever makes her feel better i guess

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so that was my first experience with

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that my other cousin said penelope if

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you're interested in trying some of this

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stuff our whole family goes to this one

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clinic and in the middle of the city um

282
00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:22,160
they're very very good they're very

283
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:23,440
reputable you know you know they're

284
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:25,120
trying to reassure me that they're not

285
00:11:29,190 --> 00:11:27,680
gonna just like give me some infection

286
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:29,200
from their acupuncture needles when i'm

287
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:31,760
there it's like oh okay so i did a

288
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:34,000
little more research into this and to

289
00:11:37,110 --> 00:11:35,440
see what i could do because there's the

290
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,120
thing is i think i went about it the

291
00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,040
wrong way because i i wanted to try at

292
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:41,440
least one of these alternative therapies

293
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,800
while i was there but

294
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,240
you know we have it here you know

295
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,720
cupping the where they

296
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:48,720
give you big bruises from the vacuum

297
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,680
cups

298
00:11:53,750 --> 00:11:51,440
and then they a thing that i've never

299
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:53,760
heard of called guasa which is where

300
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:56,560
they take a tool with a rounded edge

301
00:12:00,150 --> 00:11:59,200
like a such as a one dollar coin and

302
00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:00,160
they

303
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,800
basically push it push it hard into your

304
00:12:06,150 --> 00:12:04,880
back and your neck and your shoulder

305
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:06,160
blades

306
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,959
until you get these tiger stripe bruises

307
00:12:11,590 --> 00:12:10,480
this practice actually originated in

308
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:11,600
vietnam

309
00:12:18,069 --> 00:12:14,000
but it's also popular in hong kong and

310
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,079
so the bruises left by the guasa

311
00:12:21,190 --> 00:12:20,079
similar to the cupping the darker the

312
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,200
bruise

313
00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:22,959
the better

314
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:26,240
and somehow bruising

315
00:12:31,910 --> 00:12:30,720
as the bruises fade it's better for your

316
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:31,920
blood

317
00:12:35,829 --> 00:12:34,720
and we'll cure like flu but i hear

318
00:12:37,910 --> 00:12:35,839
differing

319
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:37,920
things from wherever i hear like like so

320
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:39,040
bruises

321
00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:40,720
are helping

322
00:12:44,230 --> 00:12:42,480
something and everybody's like yes yes

323
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,240
the bruises are good thing

324
00:12:48,150 --> 00:12:46,320
so um i'm like i wanted something

325
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:48,160
dramatic looking like that and then i

326
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:49,360
realized i'm going about it the wrong

327
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:51,040
way like i can't just go into a clinic

328
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:53,200
and say give me bruises

329
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:54,880
i want something impressive looking when

330
00:12:58,629 --> 00:12:56,160
i come back you know be instead of a

331
00:12:59,910 --> 00:12:58,639
tattoo just a bunch of guaca tiger

332
00:13:01,430 --> 00:12:59,920
stripe bruises

333
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:01,440
i'll do this the right way i'll go into

334
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:03,040
the clinic and i'll tell them what my

335
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:04,880
problem is and they'll tell me what i

336
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:06,959
need to have so

337
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:09,360
i went in one day and i

338
00:13:15,430 --> 00:13:13,120
talked to a lady named dr yan

339
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:15,440
i don't know if she's an actual doctor

340
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,120
but she wore a white coat and she was

341
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,200
very nice to me well there you go um and

342
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,360
so it's like the thing is i'm

343
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:22,880
quite healthy actually i don't have any

344
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:25,279
huge problems the only problem i guess

345
00:13:30,389 --> 00:13:27,920
was that i sometimes get bouts of acne

346
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:30,399
pimples on my face so i just said that's

347
00:13:35,110 --> 00:13:32,720
my biggest problem i guess and she said

348
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,120
oh yes well that's obviously a problem

349
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:38,079
with your energy meridians and stuff so

350
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:41,120
really oh wow that's it of course i

351
00:13:45,190 --> 00:13:42,399
should have known when i was an

352
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:45,200
adolescent that that was the problem ah

353
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:48,079
all that time spent on all the expensive

354
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,000
topical remedies i should've just gone

355
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:52,959
through the vassar clinic so

356
00:13:58,069 --> 00:13:55,440
i went into this very clean

357
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:58,079
consulting room and there's like table

358
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:59,279
there for you to lie down on there's

359
00:14:02,629 --> 00:14:00,480
also i saw

360
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:02,639
baskets of these glass cups for the

361
00:14:05,430 --> 00:14:04,320
cuffing and i'm like i i kind of don't

362
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:05,440
want that now

363
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:06,240
so

364
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,600
she said okay here's what we'll do i

365
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:11,760
think the best thing for you is

366
00:14:16,949 --> 00:14:14,000
acupuncture um but don't worry i'm a

367
00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:16,959
professional i know what i'm doing um so

368
00:14:20,069 --> 00:14:18,720
we'll do that and i said

369
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,079
okay

370
00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:22,480
give it to me so i've got pictures of

371
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:23,360
that

372
00:14:27,829 --> 00:14:24,800
pictures of my

373
00:14:30,470 --> 00:14:27,839
going i don't want to do this

374
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,480
pay someone to stick me with needles

375
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:31,839
so um

376
00:14:37,829 --> 00:14:35,040
so i laid down and she put um

377
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:37,839
needles into my hands right here between

378
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,880
my thumb and my index finger that hurt

379
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,839
actually

380
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:43,360
i've heard acupuncture doesn't hurt that

381
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:45,760
much um but she stuck them right into

382
00:14:50,629 --> 00:14:48,800
nerves it felt like oh you know you make

383
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:50,639
you kind of shut her like how wow yeah

384
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:51,440
um

385
00:15:02,389 --> 00:15:00,959
then she stuck one into each ankle

386
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:02,399
and then she started digging them in my

387
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:04,399
face

388
00:15:08,389 --> 00:15:06,480
i could feel my heart rate going up i

389
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:08,399
mean i wish i'd been hooked up to an ekg

390
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,079
just for science reasons

391
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:14,880
at my face so she stuck i think four

392
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:18,160
into my hairline two in each cheek

393
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,440
i think three into my chin wow

394
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:23,920
and i then she just said all right now

395
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,720
you lay here for 20 minutes and um i'll

396
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:28,880
be right here if you need anything and

397
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:30,880
20 minutes we'll take them out and

398
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:33,199
that'll be it so i just you know laid

399
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:35,279
there kind of with my hands on my chest

400
00:15:37,670 --> 00:15:36,720
trying not to move because when i move

401
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:37,680
my hands

402
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,720
you know it hurt so i'm like ah

403
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,320
this is weird

404
00:15:46,870 --> 00:15:44,639
um but yeah my heart was beating the

405
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,880
whole time i could feel the

406
00:15:51,829 --> 00:15:49,360
the the panicky hormones

407
00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:51,839
kind of coursing through me but um after

408
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:54,240
a few minutes she took them out and i

409
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:55,839
left and

410
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:58,399
my skin problems are

411
00:16:03,110 --> 00:16:01,199
you know they're not worse

412
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,120
well you're looking okay to me i can't

413
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,279
see any i can't see any problems at the

414
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,360
moment oh thank you well i put on a

415
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,120
little makeup before i turned on my

416
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:11,199
computer so

417
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,320
that that was now i can say i've uh done

418
00:16:18,949 --> 00:16:16,880
acupuncture so no no one can say to me

419
00:16:21,269 --> 00:16:18,959
don't knock it till you've tried it good

420
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:21,279
for you it reminds us of or reminds me

421
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,120
of my good friends our good friends at

422
00:16:27,110 --> 00:16:25,040
the owner ross and kerry podcast who do

423
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:27,120
all these crazy yeah yeah

424
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,639
i was like oh yeah that's i was thinking

425
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:30,160
i was there i was like why am i doing

426
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,440
this ross and carrie already did it

427
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,519
but yeah so that was my adventure i

428
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,240
didn't just try acupuncture i also um

429
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:40,639
went in for reflexology twice it was

430
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:42,560
more of just like a very long foot

431
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:44,480
massage

432
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,839
but they i mean i thought it was

433
00:16:49,350 --> 00:16:47,759
supposed to hurt more but it didn't it

434
00:16:51,430 --> 00:16:49,360
was it was quite nice

435
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,440
um i also did a thing i've never heard

436
00:16:57,189 --> 00:16:54,480
of before called tibetan foot steaming

437
00:16:58,949 --> 00:16:57,199
tibetan foot steaming it's it almost

438
00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:58,959
sounds like a new age pop group doesn't

439
00:17:07,590 --> 00:16:59,839
it

440
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:07,600
interesting um

441
00:17:13,189 --> 00:17:10,799
dish that you have basically it's just a

442
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:13,199
pedicure salon it was that it was quite

443
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:15,520
nice like this very lovely you know nail

444
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,000
salon but they have you like change into

445
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,079
like these silky pajamas and then you

446
00:17:24,870 --> 00:17:22,079
lay down if you sit down in these cushy

447
00:17:28,069 --> 00:17:24,880
chairs but then they stick your feet

448
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,079
your bare feet into uh these big buckets

449
00:17:32,789 --> 00:17:30,320
the big wooden buckets up to your knees

450
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:32,799
and attached to the bottom of the bucket

451
00:17:37,190 --> 00:17:35,039
is this hose and and the hose is hooked

452
00:17:40,070 --> 00:17:37,200
up to basically what looks like a rice

453
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,080
cooker what yeah it just it creates

454
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,799
steam and then they put a sachet of um

455
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:44,080
herbs

456
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,240
and then it just and then they cover

457
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:52,720
your knees up with the with the towel

458
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,520
and

459
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,960
somehow

460
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:55,919
the

461
00:17:58,710 --> 00:17:57,280
herbs

462
00:18:02,310 --> 00:17:58,720
in the steam

463
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:02,320
goes into your feet through the steam

464
00:18:07,029 --> 00:18:05,440
and it's supposed to be detoxifying and

465
00:18:09,990 --> 00:18:07,039
isn't that interesting because of course

466
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:10,000
we hear a lot about these foot patches

467
00:18:14,150 --> 00:18:12,080
that you put on your feet to draw out

468
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,160
the toxins you're telling me you have a

469
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,400
treatment that puts things

470
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:18,240
in to draw out

471
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,029
but uh it was highly recommended so i

472
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,640
tried it and you know it was very

473
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:29,200
relaxing and i don't know you got clean

474
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:32,320
feet afterwards a very clean softened

475
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:33,280
feet

476
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:35,760
but yeah they they give you a menu to to

477
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:37,919
whichever problem you've got there's a

478
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:40,480
sachet of medicinal herbs for each

479
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:41,600
problem

480
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,400
and uh no i just chose the detoxifying

481
00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:46,720
one because i'm like i don't know i

482
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:49,120
don't have any arthritic problems though

483
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,559
i don't know what a foot steam would do

484
00:18:55,750 --> 00:18:52,559
to help but i don't want to knock it too

485
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:55,760
much because i honestly did ask

486
00:19:00,150 --> 00:18:57,520
my friends and family there for their

487
00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,160
best opinion on what to do and they

488
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:02,400
showed me the best places so

489
00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,240
it was it was a good experience i'm glad

490
00:19:08,390 --> 00:19:06,480
i've tried all these stuff i had a good

491
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:08,400
time trying except for this it's a very

492
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:10,080
important point penny because you're

493
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,520
right a lot of people will say to us

494
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,960
when we're talking about something that

495
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,160
we don't

496
00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:17,919
think has much credibility well don't

497
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:19,520
knock it until you try it ah you haven't

498
00:19:23,350 --> 00:19:20,640
tried it yet you don't know what you're

499
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:23,360
talking about and now i've i have tried

500
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:25,200
lots of weird things over the years so

501
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:26,960
it's good to know that more people like

502
00:19:30,549 --> 00:19:29,200
you are getting out there and even if

503
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:30,559
even if we think we have this

504
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:33,440
preconception that it's one thing well

505
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:35,919
we can say honestly we gave it a shot

506
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:38,240
and we should try to give these things a

507
00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:39,600
shot with an open mind and see where

508
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:40,640
they get you

509
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:43,120
so i'm glad you did that and i hope you

510
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,919
try some more wacky and crazy things

511
00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:48,160
oh i do intend to and one of these days

512
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,240
i'm going to try the cupping i want to

513
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,280
see how dark the bruises can be

514
00:19:56,870 --> 00:19:55,039
oh yeah and about that i was asking my

515
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,880
cousin about that who he's tried it a

516
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:58,480
lot of times there

517
00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:59,760
and he

518
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:02,080
said that the darker the bruise the

519
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:03,120
better

520
00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:03,840
but

521
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,240
what's interesting is that he has

522
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:08,720
recently taken a very

523
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:10,400
taken start in taking his health very

524
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:12,000
seriously and he started actually

525
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:13,919
exercising so when i was asking him

526
00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:14,720
about

527
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:15,840
the cupping

528
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,880
he said

529
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:18,799
well you can try the cupping it's very

530
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,080
good for you he assured me it's good

531
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:25,039
but don't rely on it if you really want

532
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,080
to get healthy you must exercise and you

533
00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:30,640
must eat healthy don't eat a lot of junk

534
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:33,280
food don't drink a lot of soda drink tea

535
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:34,400
drink water

536
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,400
and you know eat lots of leafy green

537
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,559
vegetables and start jogging every day

538
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,640
or do yoga or something

539
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:42,960
that is even better than the cupping so

540
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:46,559
i'm glad that he's recommending this

541
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,600
um

542
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,600
you know it's as highly you know that

543
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,919
the healthy lifestyle is just as good as

544
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:53,760
the cuffing so it's interesting and

545
00:20:57,909 --> 00:20:55,200
which is actually the

546
00:21:00,390 --> 00:20:57,919
mentality of quite a lot of um chinese

547
00:21:01,270 --> 00:21:00,400
people i would say because they do

548
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,280
um

549
00:21:05,830 --> 00:21:03,360
don't try to just rely

550
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:05,840
on these remedies they

551
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:07,600
try to rely more on a healthy lifestyle

552
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:08,720
you know more about preventative

553
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,120
medicine so yeah well i wish more people

554
00:21:14,470 --> 00:21:13,280
in the first world would uh think that

555
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,480
way and

556
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:17,039
get out there and uh yeah i certainly

557
00:21:23,270 --> 00:21:22,310
do what i can in that respect and i

558
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:23,280
think it's

559
00:21:26,390 --> 00:21:25,039
good advice no matter what culture

560
00:21:29,430 --> 00:21:26,400
you're in

561
00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,440
exactly exactly it was a good lesson

562
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,840
penny what a wonderful treat it is to

563
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:33,840
catch up and see you again and please

564
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,480
give my best to your dad a good friend

565
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:38,720
oh i will oh and here's i did want to

566
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:41,440
give a quick shout out for um susan

567
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,480
gerbic she's told me recently that

568
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:46,960
there's been a bunch of excellent stuff

569
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,159
recently on the gorilla scepticism front

570
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:52,320
she asked me to just tell everybody that

571
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:54,960
go to her blog a lot of stuff's been

572
00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:56,799
happening recently there um they're

573
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:59,360
still doing their um translate the wiki

574
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,720
pages into

575
00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:02,799
all languages possible it's a great

576
00:22:07,990 --> 00:22:05,280
project yeah a lot of um they have a

577
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:08,000
very excellent portuguese translator

578
00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,400
right now and he's done some great stuff

579
00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:12,880
on the eric von daniken and the indigo

580
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,320
children pages

581
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:16,400
so check that out well if you speak

582
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,559
portuguese it might be more meaningful

583
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,720
to you but no it's important nonetheless

584
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,559
the dutch and russian

585
00:22:25,909 --> 00:22:24,159
um translators have done some great

586
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:25,919
stuff recently so check that out

587
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:27,600
listeners check that out listeners

588
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:30,240
there'll be a link in this week's show

589
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:33,440
notes penny chan i hope i hope i hope we

590
00:22:37,990 --> 00:22:35,280
can see each other oh in a couple of

591
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,000
months when uh the amazing meeting rolls

592
00:22:42,789 --> 00:22:40,799
around again oh yes of course

593
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,799
and by that time everybody will know

594
00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:45,039
about uh solar flare

595
00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:47,760
oh look where can't wait

596
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:49,760
benny jan a penny for your thoughts

597
00:23:03,990 --> 00:22:51,039
thanks very much

598
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,190
greetings skeptics zone listeners

599
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:09,840
do you know what to do in august come to

600
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:12,720
stockholm sweden and meet astronaut

601
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:14,799
chris

602
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:17,440
activist hayley stevens

603
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:20,640
stats guru hans

604
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:23,919
undercover health journalists

605
00:23:28,950 --> 00:23:26,880
and many more at the 15th european

606
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:28,960
skeptics congress

607
00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:32,559
friday the 23rd to sunday the 25th of

608
00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:35,600
august in stockholm

609
00:23:43,029 --> 00:23:38,240
15th european skeptic's conference

610
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:58,950
www.euroskepticscon.org

611
00:24:03,430 --> 00:24:01,190
my father only spoke to me twice in my

612
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:03,440
entire life

613
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,159
perhaps it was because i was

614
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:08,400
born out of wedlock

615
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:14,230
i didn't go to school

616
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:15,440
i had

617
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:16,840
free time to

618
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,840
myself so i went in to see a vaudeville

619
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:21,039
show with

620
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,840
harry blackstone

621
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:26,000
i saw him actually

622
00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:49,990
sunday monday happy days hey who is the

623
00:24:59,269 --> 00:24:52,240
amazing randy

624
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:00,950
randy is an honest liar he says he's

625
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:02,400
going to deceive you and then he does

626
00:25:04,950 --> 00:25:03,360
i'm not going to tell you i have

627
00:25:06,549 --> 00:25:04,960
supernatural powers i'm going to tell

628
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:06,559
you i'm totally normal which actually

629
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,039
makes it more exciting he has managed to

630
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:12,080
span several different worlds it's not

631
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:15,120
always the same thing he was a world

632
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:17,679
famous magician he was really a kind of

633
00:25:20,870 --> 00:25:19,039
superman

634
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:20,880
escapes from straight jackets from

635
00:25:25,190 --> 00:25:23,279
burning rooms over niagara falls buried

636
00:25:30,310 --> 00:25:25,200
under the icy beak houdini's record of

637
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:31,830
miranda you've been going around the

638
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:33,919
country somewhat as houdini used to in

639
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,240
the past trying to debunk those who say

640
00:25:41,110 --> 00:25:38,320
that it's psychic power you say it's

641
00:25:43,669 --> 00:25:41,120
magic people like randy are doing a huge

642
00:25:46,149 --> 00:25:43,679
service by unmasking these fakes

643
00:25:48,390 --> 00:25:46,159
mountebanks and charlatans what you need

644
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:48,400
is something who is an expert deceiver

645
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,480
in his own right the great trinity of

646
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:52,799
magic skepticism and science

647
00:25:57,909 --> 00:25:55,440
i had not fully appreciated until i saw

648
00:25:59,669 --> 00:25:57,919
james randy do his routines and i saw

649
00:26:04,149 --> 00:25:59,679
him on the tonight show when he did the

650
00:26:07,430 --> 00:26:05,830
pop-off who was allegedly hearing the

651
00:26:09,029 --> 00:26:07,440
voice of god and he'd go around his

652
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:09,039
congregation and tell people amazing

653
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:10,400
things about themselves you've got

654
00:26:14,549 --> 00:26:12,720
cancer of the stomach

655
00:26:16,630 --> 00:26:14,559
are you ready for god to burn that

656
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:16,640
cancer out

657
00:26:20,149 --> 00:26:18,240
he had them come out of the audience and

658
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:20,159
throw their pills up on stage throw them

659
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,320
up there and we discovered that the man

660
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:24,880
was wearing of all things a hearing aid

661
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:27,039
in his left ear the man who heals the

662
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:28,320
deaf and the blind isn't going to have

663
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:29,760
much use for a hearing aid one would

664
00:26:33,510 --> 00:26:31,520
think we discovered that someone is

665
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:33,520
sitting at a transmitter backstage who

666
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,080
is harold what randy did was to tune

667
00:26:43,870 --> 00:26:38,320
into the same frequency and that allowed

668
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:46,789
4267 masterson i can see the angels of

669
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:48,799
god all around your house that's

670
00:26:54,789 --> 00:26:51,200
disturbing when you see it he breaks

671
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:54,799
down the people he's he's uncovered as

672
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:57,200
as to as tight a degree as he can

673
00:27:00,950 --> 00:26:58,880
showing all their methodologies and all

674
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,960
of their tricks up to your old tricks i

675
00:27:05,350 --> 00:27:02,880
see why not

676
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:05,360
i'm a charlatan this ability to figure

677
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:07,039
out when someone's trying to fool you is

678
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:09,919
of enormous value and james randy is

679
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:11,760
the past master perhaps the world's

680
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,029
the solution is rather simple

681
00:27:31,029 --> 00:27:29,279
all of these people who say that they

682
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:31,039
can speak with the dead

683
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,710
oh no that doesn't come out

684
00:27:44,470 --> 00:27:41,590
i just ingested six and a half days

685
00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:44,480
worth of homeopathic sleeping pills

686
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:46,840
do you believe in god uh which

687
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:50,000
god thor any dog any guy no no i don't i

688
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,600
don't have compelling evidence that

689
00:27:55,110 --> 00:27:53,679
convinces me there is a deity gee i bet

690
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:55,120
you don't believe in the tooth fairy or

691
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:56,720
santa claus either well i'm looking into

692
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:03,430
this is what i call home now

693
00:28:06,470 --> 00:28:04,720
and uh

694
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,480
i'm rather pleased with it rather please

695
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:08,240
let the neighbors are across the canal

696
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:11,200
so i'm sufficiently separated and

697
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,240
they're very very happy about that too

698
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:17,200
our pal james randy scanned us out of

699
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:19,440
lunch quite a few times here's how he

700
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:21,840
did it randy i had never considered the

701
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:24,000
possibility that magic could be done

702
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,760
morally you didn't have to lie to do

703
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:27,840
magic was a brand new idea yeah i have

704
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:29,440
said many times i don't mind saying no

705
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,159
better tell her he is the most lovable

706
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:34,399
evonkular are we there yet are we there

707
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:37,760
yet gracious and generous

708
00:28:42,470 --> 00:28:40,480
sweet granddad which reminds me when i

709
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:42,480
toured with alice cooper and yet he

710
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,799
pulls no punches when talking about his

711
00:28:49,110 --> 00:28:46,799
life's work see i've always had my

712
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:49,120
battle with the psychics people who are

713
00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:51,279
stealing money from the public magicians

714
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:53,120
don't lie to people magicians are the

715
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,799
most honest people in the world they

716
00:28:59,669 --> 00:28:56,320
tell you they're going to fool you and

717
00:29:01,590 --> 00:28:59,679
then they do it lies

718
00:29:03,669 --> 00:29:01,600
tell it by the fireside or the

719
00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:03,679
marketplace or in a movie

720
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:06,559
almost any story is almost certainly

721
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,389
an honest liar the amazing randy story

722
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:20,240
for more information and to help this

723
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:24,000
worthwhile project visit www

724
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:25,840
dot and

725
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,070
the skeptic magazine the journal from

726
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,120
australian skeptics subscribe online to

727
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:49,279
the world's second oldest skeptical

728
00:30:00,630 --> 00:29:56,870
and click the publications link

729
00:30:03,430 --> 00:30:00,640
you can also find there over 30 years of

730
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:03,440
back issues free to download

731
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:06,159
the skeptic the magazine from australian

732
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:20,470
here's maynard's spooky action

733
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:26,149
look we're in the usual skeptic zone

734
00:30:29,510 --> 00:30:27,760
studio that we use here when we're at

735
00:30:31,029 --> 00:30:29,520
skeptics in the pub the basically the

736
00:30:32,630 --> 00:30:31,039
hallway with a bit of carpet with our

737
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,640
special guest who've we got this week

738
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,320
hey i'm ben from physics education how

739
00:30:37,510 --> 00:30:36,240
you doing look ben i just came in at the

740
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,520
end of it there because like you know i

741
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:39,520
race away from work and i saw you

742
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,360
tipping water upside down and doing all

743
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:43,760
sorts of things and explaining how kids

744
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:45,679
just don't believe you they they they

745
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,960
almost think there's a bit of magic

746
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:48,320
going on sometimes when you try and

747
00:30:53,350 --> 00:30:51,039
teach them stuff yeah i mean

748
00:30:54,630 --> 00:30:53,360
having mad magic um as they come in oh

749
00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:54,640
hang on we've got plates of dinner

750
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:55,600
coming through it's all good now you're

751
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,960
fine this happens every time we record

752
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,960
here all right it just makes me hungry

753
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:00,960
that's good um now look it's

754
00:31:05,269 --> 00:31:03,120
it's quite okay for kids to in you know

755
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:05,279
believe in magic in some ways but i also

756
00:31:08,230 --> 00:31:06,720
want to think about just the rational

757
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:08,240
ideas of science as well and so if

758
00:31:12,149 --> 00:31:10,640
anything it provides a talking point and

759
00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:12,159
where do you think they get the idea

760
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,679
from magic from is it something that's

761
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:15,039
innate in kids because they love to

762
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:16,559
dream and imagine or is it something

763
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:19,120
that's brought to by books harry potter

764
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:21,440
or television like and yeah or do you

765
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,960
think it's just innate like even if

766
00:31:26,950 --> 00:31:24,960
there was no outside stimulus they would

767
00:31:28,950 --> 00:31:26,960
invent little magical things yeah it's

768
00:31:30,149 --> 00:31:28,960
part of growing up imagination is a key

769
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:30,159
as part of the

770
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:31,760
growth of their brain i reckon it would

771
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:32,960
definitely exist put them in a white

772
00:31:35,830 --> 00:31:34,399
room they still think of things

773
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:35,840
interesting and what's the one that's

774
00:31:40,470 --> 00:31:37,760
hardest for you to dispel you're trying

775
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:40,480
to teach physics which for me physics is

776
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:42,640
really hard maths for me because once

777
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:44,240
you get into the quadratic equations and

778
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:45,840
things like that that's actually where i

779
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:48,559
lost my love of science when mathematics

780
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:50,000
became involved that it became very

781
00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:51,440
difficult for me

782
00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:52,880
yeah it's kind of like trying to sing

783
00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:55,200
you're single down on just one thing ah

784
00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,600
geez hardest one to dispel i mean being

785
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:59,120
put on the spot i would like to think of

786
00:32:03,430 --> 00:32:01,360
it more i think it's a collection i mean

787
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,440
there's all sorts of things i mean i

788
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:05,840
didn't mention before people

789
00:32:09,509 --> 00:32:08,399
hang on to taste buds being

790
00:32:11,509 --> 00:32:09,519
they're different parts of your tongue

791
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:11,519
being sweet savoury sour they can taste

792
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:13,360
certain things bitter and whatnot and

793
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:15,600
it's in complete fabrication based on a

794
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,240
poor translation of a journal um from

795
00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:20,240
about 1908 or 904 i can't remember right

796
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:22,480
now but the idea was is that this

797
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:23,600
particular

798
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,799
thing that you have an area of the

799
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,159
tongue that only does sweet and that

800
00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:28,080
only try it put salt sweet and sour

801
00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,279
stuff on the tip your tongue guarantee

802
00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:31,679
you'll taste it every single time

803
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:33,360
it's put in primary science textbooks

804
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:35,200
the old ones because it was a bad

805
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:37,200
translation which was then

806
00:32:41,190 --> 00:32:39,120
replicated over and over and over and

807
00:32:42,389 --> 00:32:41,200
over again and when we teach the schools

808
00:32:43,909 --> 00:32:42,399
we actually get the teacher kind of put

809
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,919
in a funny situation because they've

810
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:45,919
actually gone and taught that thing and

811
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,240
usually they will say to us hey we've

812
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:49,679
done this taste test experiment thing

813
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:51,279
i'm telling you now i can't get it to

814
00:32:53,909 --> 00:32:52,559
work and i go you know why because it

815
00:32:56,630 --> 00:32:53,919
doesn't work

816
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:56,640
and that's the thing it's um so it's oh

817
00:32:59,430 --> 00:32:58,159
i mean it's really easy to dispel

818
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:59,440
because you just get some sugar some

819
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:01,039
salt and some citric acid and you put on

820
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:02,000
different parts of your tongue i

821
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,600
guarantee you'll taste it on each spot

822
00:33:09,509 --> 00:33:07,600
but they don't let that they ignore

823
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:09,519
their observations in in the face of

824
00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:11,039
what they're reading in the book or the

825
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:12,640
dogma in

826
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,200
the science teaching of the school so

827
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:17,200
that it's easy as to get rid of the myth

828
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,640
but just okay that just popped in my

829
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,399
brain but just show for me it just shows

830
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:22,080
there are many things out there that we

831
00:33:26,149 --> 00:33:23,600
take for granted that may not be true

832
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:26,159
and like i said with me the the the

833
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,600
difficulty with mathematics is what

834
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:29,360
killed my enjoyment of physics and

835
00:33:32,149 --> 00:33:30,799
chemistry i remember the one specific

836
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,159
thing about chemistry that killed my

837
00:33:36,470 --> 00:33:34,320
interest in that science was getting my

838
00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:36,480
head around valency levels there was

839
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:38,159
something about valencia levels in

840
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:39,519
chemistry when they were teaching it to

841
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,799
me again probably because that's a

842
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,960
little bit mathematics like to me and

843
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,640
that's what killed it for me and what is

844
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,799
it that the thing with kids you see at

845
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,720
the younger age that makes them get a

846
00:33:51,909 --> 00:33:50,399
disconnect with science and go on that's

847
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:51,919
a bit hard you know what i think they're

848
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:53,519
fine until about year six i think the

849
00:33:57,509 --> 00:33:55,279
issue is is that people try and make it

850
00:33:59,509 --> 00:33:57,519
too complicated um rather than just

851
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:59,519
teaching for the innate you know just

852
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,720
what's actually occurring in this

853
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:02,640
experiment um i think the scientific

854
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:04,720
method needs to be embedded right on

855
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,840
early like i didn't care for that

856
00:34:10,629 --> 00:34:07,360
preschool it doesn't matter you can

857
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,639
teach it we do teach it as that um but

858
00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,159
the thing is is that when they hit year

859
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:13,839
seven and this is what does turn kids

860
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:14,720
off for science there's plenty of

861
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:17,200
journal articles supporting this

862
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:18,399
the job of a science teacher is the

863
00:34:21,349 --> 00:34:19,359
first

864
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:21,359
is to give them the safety rules is

865
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:23,280
critical you've got to do it um you also

866
00:34:25,829 --> 00:34:24,399
have to go through what the scientific

867
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:25,839
method is and these kids think they're

868
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,919
coming from having watched cartoons or

869
00:34:31,190 --> 00:34:29,280
the stories about what might happen in a

870
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:31,200
high school science lab and now they're

871
00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:32,960
boiling water

872
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,800
and now they're doing something simple

873
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,879
with paper and something else it's not

874
00:34:40,470 --> 00:34:38,960
the slime and explosions and the mad

875
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:40,480
science they really truly thought was

876
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:41,520
going to happen because you've got a

877
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:42,879
rational science teacher try and teach

878
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:45,280
them the scientific method and so

879
00:34:51,109 --> 00:34:48,399
they're given a myth which doesn't occur

880
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,119
in high school and so yeah i know and

881
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:53,119
then do you think um some of the popular

882
00:34:57,190 --> 00:34:55,040
science shows even even the good ones

883
00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,200
like bango's the theory and mythbusters

884
00:35:00,870 --> 00:34:59,280
uh sort of panda that a bit because

885
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,880
they're almost always blowing things up

886
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,480
because that's good on tv and that is

887
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:04,240
indeed part of physics but people might

888
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:05,599
come to expect a little bit much out of

889
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:07,040
high school physics you know it's really

890
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:08,320
tough because as a teacher you've got to

891
00:35:12,069 --> 00:35:10,000
be an entertainer too otherwise you lose

892
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:12,079
your audience which is your kids

893
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,359
now

894
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:14,880
you kind of have to propagate some of

895
00:35:18,150 --> 00:35:16,480
that myth because you want to make it

896
00:35:19,030 --> 00:35:18,160
interesting and make it lively and all

897
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,040
the rest

898
00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:21,440
some kids need that myth around it to

899
00:35:25,030 --> 00:35:23,200
keep them engaged whereas other kids

900
00:35:25,990 --> 00:35:25,040
like it for the innate beauty of what's

901
00:35:27,589 --> 00:35:26,000
going on from the sun from the

902
00:35:29,750 --> 00:35:27,599
scientific point of view

903
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:29,760
and so yeah when you see things in

904
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:33,359
sitcoms and whatnot of course

905
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:35,040
propelling the idea of a mad scientist

906
00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:37,359
is a classic example and annoys a lot of

907
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:39,440
really high-end scientists about this it

908
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,800
really does

909
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:42,640
but the reality is that

910
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,480
these kids believe this and you know

911
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:47,200
what it's it's it's tough but if that

912
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:48,560
means you get just a little bit more

913
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:50,160
interested to listen to you about how

914
00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:52,000
the world works you'll use it a little

915
00:35:55,510 --> 00:35:53,280
bit and then you get rid of that myth

916
00:35:57,910 --> 00:35:55,520
later now for our american listeners who

917
00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:57,920
their educators in some states on a

918
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:00,560
daily basis have to have a a debate with

919
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:02,160
creationists and there's pressure to put

920
00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,000
that into the school books is there

921
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:06,000
anything like that in australia in this

922
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:07,520
country in any of the educational

923
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,880
curriculums

924
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:10,320
all right so the curriculum set by the

925
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:11,680
board of studies of new south wales

926
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,400
which is a state in australia now um you

927
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,480
know teachers thou shalt follow that to

928
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:18,400
the book you have to do it i mean and

929
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:20,480
the reality is though there's also

930
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:22,240
islamic schools there are christian

931
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:23,920
schools there are schools of many faiths

932
00:36:29,030 --> 00:36:27,359
and they are allowed by process to teach

933
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:29,040
their faith their religious school now

934
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:30,880
would catholic schools because they'd be

935
00:36:33,829 --> 00:36:32,160
one of the major private ones in

936
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,839
australia would they be able to teach

937
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:35,680
creationism yes now they have to teach

938
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,880
science alongside it because it's part

939
00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:38,880
of the syllabus and so the job of a

940
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:40,480
science teacher in an organization like

941
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:41,920
that is to say

942
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:44,640
here is a theory and evolution's a

943
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:46,720
theory is held up by evidence however

944
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:47,839
it's still called a theory because it's

945
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:50,160
not an outright law yet

946
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:52,079
to the nth degree and it's the same

947
00:36:56,870 --> 00:36:54,160
thing with big bang theory and whatnot

948
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:56,880
and so you given the evidence say this

949
00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:58,000
is a the good thing about this

950
00:37:01,109 --> 00:36:59,119
particular theory is that it's

951
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:01,119
measurable and here are the evidence

952
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:03,440
points and so you have to and there's

953
00:37:07,829 --> 00:37:06,160
actually a job as a teacher to say here

954
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,839
okay i'm in a science room we're going

955
00:37:11,750 --> 00:37:09,520
to teach the scientific view of how the

956
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:11,760
world works here is when he's talking

957
00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:13,119
about the law of thermodynamics you say

958
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:14,160
it's a law and this is how it's going to

959
00:37:17,190 --> 00:37:16,000
be there's how it works and the key can

960
00:37:19,750 --> 00:37:17,200
say it could be god or whatever he wants

961
00:37:21,829 --> 00:37:19,760
to think now the um

962
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,839
when it comes to creation or evolution

963
00:37:25,829 --> 00:37:23,440
or revolution all those sort of debates

964
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:25,839
say you say this is the scientific

965
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:28,000
headspace that we're coming from here

966
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:29,680
are the evidence points you make your

967
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:32,480
own rational thought around this and

968
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:34,320
we leave it at that because you can't

969
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:36,000
say it's a law yet they tell you what

970
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:37,760
you say geez a pretty good theory

971
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:38,960
because here are the points that are

972
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:39,680
pretty

973
00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:41,520
almost irrefutable but you still call it

974
00:37:44,470 --> 00:37:42,960
a theory because scientists haven't

975
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,480
called it a law yet

976
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:46,160
now your job would be one of the most

977
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:47,920
difficult ones on the planet any

978
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,839
educator has a difficult job from time

979
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:51,680
to time and i always like when i'm

980
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:53,359
interviewing people to ask them about

981
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:54,880
something everybody that can take who

982
00:37:58,390 --> 00:37:56,640
doesn't do your job something to help

983
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:58,400
them through their everyday work so when

984
00:38:02,069 --> 00:38:00,079
things are tough for you when you've got

985
00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:02,079
a hard point getting the point across

986
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:03,920
when the kids are mucking up when it's a

987
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:05,839
hot day when the air conditions broken

988
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:07,680
in the classroom that was built in 1950s

989
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:08,880
and it was supposed to be a demandable

990
00:38:13,910 --> 00:38:11,839
classroom back then how the hell to

991
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:13,920
invoke a biblical reference there do you

992
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:16,079
get through the day and and through the

993
00:38:19,349 --> 00:38:17,599
class and get it across to the kids i

994
00:38:20,790 --> 00:38:19,359
mean where do you dig down to i mean

995
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,800
like athletes have a special place they

996
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:22,640
dig down to to make it across the line

997
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,920
how do you do that as an educator

998
00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:25,119
because it's not you you've got to bring

999
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:26,320
across the line you've got to bring

1000
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:28,079
these 30 kids with you

1001
00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:35,030
what's in a bag of tricks of an educator

1002
00:38:37,910 --> 00:38:36,400
well i mean i've actually been thinking

1003
00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:37,920
that casual science teachers should

1004
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,920
actually have a box with just some stuff

1005
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:41,680
which is pencils straws stringing

1006
00:38:45,589 --> 00:38:43,280
balloons and some simple things there's

1007
00:38:46,870 --> 00:38:45,599
a go-to box when they

1008
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:46,880
so they could just drop it in some water

1009
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,640
hey kids don't go like that yeah it's a

1010
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:50,079
bit of a yeah they won't let you do that

1011
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:52,079
anymore

1012
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,640
but the um yeah the um the yeah you

1013
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:56,960
should have some you know hold back some

1014
00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:58,800
experiments that you don't want to do

1015
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:00,160
unless it's one of those days that's

1016
00:39:03,670 --> 00:39:01,760
what you do and you know what you just

1017
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:03,680
have to step up simple as that i mean if

1018
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,800
you're just imagine if you're a uh a a

1019
00:39:10,069 --> 00:39:08,560
neurosurgeon and you're having a bad day

1020
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:10,079
whatever's going on and the last thing

1021
00:39:13,670 --> 00:39:11,760
you want to be doing i mean yeah you

1022
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:13,680
know you're gonna you're gonna have to

1023
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:15,440
step up and that's no choice and so

1024
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:16,800
there's a thing so you've got a class of

1025
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:18,960
30 kids there some of them recalcitrant

1026
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:20,480
that's going to be the case and some are

1027
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,839
going to be loving what you're doing but

1028
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:23,599
on a tough day it is a tough day and you

1029
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:25,280
accept it and you and you choose an

1030
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:27,040
experiment which it might be off topic

1031
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:28,320
for a little bit but what's what the hey

1032
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:30,079
i mean you've got five minutes what what

1033
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:31,839
what the harm is it going outside on a

1034
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:33,359
hot windy day and doing some bottle

1035
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,520
rockets water rockets because you know

1036
00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:36,960
they're going to like it

1037
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:38,320
but you know you're off topic for a

1038
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:39,280
little while but guess what they'll

1039
00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:41,040
listen to you again

1040
00:39:44,550 --> 00:39:42,400
and do you think it's a good thing to

1041
00:39:46,470 --> 00:39:44,560
have um animals in the classroom not

1042
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,480
like have the the guinea pig or have the

1043
00:39:50,630 --> 00:39:48,640
rat that that's in the classroom that

1044
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:50,640
the kids keep or look after i think that

1045
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:52,400
teaches them about life and about the

1046
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:53,760
life cycle of animals that everything

1047
00:39:56,150 --> 00:39:54,880
lives and dies do you think that's a

1048
00:39:57,829 --> 00:39:56,160
helpful thing or it can be a bit

1049
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:57,839
distressing when the animal sometimes

1050
00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:59,200
[\h__\h] it all right now i know you're

1051
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:01,040
going there um yeah it's i i think

1052
00:40:04,069 --> 00:40:02,560
that's actually a good idea i mean some

1053
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:04,079
kids actually have never seen a seed

1054
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,680
grow some kids have never seen a chicken

1055
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:07,440
hatch out of an egg

1056
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:09,599
and now having that around is not a bad

1057
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:11,359
idea as long as they treat you humanely

1058
00:40:14,230 --> 00:40:12,720
and when they die they die and if they

1059
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:14,240
need help they need help from a

1060
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:16,240
veterinary point of view absolutely but

1061
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:17,520
it is a cycle of life they're going to

1062
00:40:21,589 --> 00:40:18,720
be exposed to anyway you might as well

1063
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:21,599
be exposed to it with a guide

1064
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:23,520
and one last question always like asking

1065
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:25,680
this one what do you reckon musically is

1066
00:40:29,030 --> 00:40:27,520
the best thing to introduce kids to uh

1067
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:29,040
science is there i mean they might be

1068
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:30,640
giants had that great science album that

1069
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:33,280
everyone loves quoting say that yeah i i

1070
00:40:35,990 --> 00:40:34,640
i think i think here comes science was

1071
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:36,000
the name

1072
00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:37,680
uh yeah well guess what that was the one

1073
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,760
i was gonna go to um nothing wrong with

1074
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,359
that but you know what i mean there's

1075
00:40:44,310 --> 00:40:42,720
all the studies even like my little

1076
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:44,320
daughter was a premature baby and

1077
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,880
they've had studies in israel about the

1078
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:48,720
effect of growth development with mozart

1079
00:40:51,430 --> 00:40:49,839
or was a beethoven one of the two

1080
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,440
playing look you know anything with a

1081
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:53,040
melody and a rhythm

1082
00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:56,079
um can help mathematical ability i mean

1083
00:40:59,270 --> 00:40:57,520
well you'd be talking bacon there the

1084
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,280
work of kevin bacon with footloose

1085
00:41:01,990 --> 00:41:00,720
that's what you'd be talking about there

1086
00:41:03,829 --> 00:41:02,000
oh i know if it gets the kid to shake

1087
00:41:05,349 --> 00:41:03,839
their hips all good

1088
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:05,359
but i'm looking it's and there's a

1089
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:07,200
multitude i mean from every different

1090
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:08,319
culture there'd be something in there

1091
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,680
that's good for them if it stimulates

1092
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,920
their brain and allows them to you know

1093
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:13,280
increase their cognitive function happy

1094
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,800
days and

1095
00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:16,400
lastly what's a good website that we can

1096
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:18,400
go to that's good for education good for

1097
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,760
learning and one that you'd recommend to

1098
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:21,119
us all absolutely i mean it's a

1099
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:23,119
shameless plug but our our company

1100
00:41:29,069 --> 00:41:25,040
website physics education spell really

1101
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:29,079
badly f i double z ics education.com.u

1102
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:30,960
physicseducation.com has over 100 free

1103
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,560
experiments you can easily do by going

1104
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:34,079
down to local shops and pick up the

1105
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:35,680
materials for a couple of bucks it's

1106
00:41:38,950 --> 00:41:37,359
just there and off you go but if you

1107
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:38,960
type in free science experiments into

1108
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:40,800
google you'll find hundreds of websites

1109
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:42,160
just use your brain and make sure that

1110
00:41:44,309 --> 00:41:42,880
you're not going to do something

1111
00:41:45,990 --> 00:41:44,319
dangerous and what's your favorite

1112
00:41:47,270 --> 00:41:46,000
household item you reckon is great for

1113
00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:47,280
experimenting with

1114
00:41:50,309 --> 00:41:48,880
vinegar bicarbonate soda your room

1115
00:41:51,750 --> 00:41:50,319
should smell like it there's so many

1116
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,760
things you can do you can do heaps of

1117
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,200
stuff you don't have to do high-end

1118
00:41:59,990 --> 00:41:55,200
stuff you're missing the point the

1119
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:02,069
here we are at skeptics in the pub

1120
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:03,839
maynard here reporting not far from the

1121
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,760
bar there it is there it were only one

1122
00:42:09,430 --> 00:42:07,680
drink in so far so anything could happen

1123
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:09,440
ladies and gentlemen we have amanda here

1124
00:42:13,349 --> 00:42:11,920
who is our guest from the act the

1125
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:13,359
australian capital territory she's

1126
00:42:16,950 --> 00:42:15,280
crossed the border had her passport

1127
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,960
stamped and joined us here in sydney at

1128
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:18,319
the coronation hotel tonight good

1129
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:19,119
evening

1130
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:20,400
hi there

1131
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:22,079
now the big question we're asking

1132
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,440
everybody is what is intuition no it's

1133
00:42:29,589 --> 00:42:27,359
not a song by stevie wonder there is

1134
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:29,599
intuition i'm not working down the

1135
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:31,040
street nothing like that and it's sung

1136
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:33,359
by jewel and a song by jewel as well yes

1137
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:35,040
wow okay well there you go well what do

1138
00:42:38,309 --> 00:42:36,640
you think intuition is

1139
00:42:40,150 --> 00:42:38,319
well it's funny because we when we

1140
00:42:42,470 --> 00:42:40,160
brought up the question a lot of people

1141
00:42:44,870 --> 00:42:42,480
think intuition is all magical and it's

1142
00:42:47,510 --> 00:42:44,880
woo and it's everything like that but i

1143
00:42:50,069 --> 00:42:47,520
think it's partly about taking on from

1144
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:50,079
your experiences and being able to just

1145
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,839
sort of

1146
00:42:54,790 --> 00:42:53,200
i don't know i think there's a sense

1147
00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:54,800
about things that doesn't have to be

1148
00:42:59,349 --> 00:42:57,200
magically based it's based on you know

1149
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,359
the way your brain works as well as the

1150
00:43:03,190 --> 00:43:01,760
what you experience in everyday life i'd

1151
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:03,200
take a stab at it and say it's a

1152
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,680
prediction of future events based on

1153
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,839
past ones

1154
00:43:12,069 --> 00:43:10,400
i would probably agree with you a little

1155
00:43:14,309 --> 00:43:12,079
bit but we may need to have a beer to

1156
00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:14,319
debate that further i think we may have

1157
00:43:19,829 --> 00:43:16,880
now look i i know you also work for a a

1158
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:19,839
federal department yes i do and you also

1159
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:22,079
work in the sort of the law federal

1160
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:24,160
department so i'm going to ask you a

1161
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:25,119
question

1162
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:26,960
about the fbi

1163
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,079
which i know you've got nothing to do

1164
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,680
with the federal bureau investigation

1165
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,760
okay right now and this actually came up

1166
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,359
jack marks the journalists brought this

1167
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,359
up with me a few weeks ago

1168
00:43:39,270 --> 00:43:37,200
mulder and scully right

1169
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:39,280
they worked for the fbi allegedly in the

1170
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,560
x-files

1171
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,560
how come they still had their job when

1172
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:44,480
they never actually solved anything they

1173
00:43:48,069 --> 00:43:46,000
would get to the end of every episode

1174
00:43:49,030 --> 00:43:48,079
and go well that was a bit spooky and

1175
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:49,040
just

1176
00:43:52,630 --> 00:43:50,720
get case closed that's it they never

1177
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,640
actually put in a report where they

1178
00:43:56,309 --> 00:43:54,560
actually solved anything

1179
00:43:58,309 --> 00:43:56,319
well that's a very good question and i

1180
00:44:01,829 --> 00:43:58,319
think i'll answer it in a couple of ways

1181
00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,839
one because well they're not real oh

1182
00:44:04,630 --> 00:44:03,200
you're giving me that fiction thing

1183
00:44:07,109 --> 00:44:04,640
again are you

1184
00:44:09,109 --> 00:44:07,119
and and two what fun would it be how

1185
00:44:11,430 --> 00:44:09,119
what would anyone tune into the next

1186
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:11,440
week episode if they solve the crime and

1187
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:13,839
then move on but if you remember rightly

1188
00:44:18,069 --> 00:44:16,160
in their first season of x-files they

1189
00:44:20,069 --> 00:44:18,079
actually started solving crimes but then

1190
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:20,079
they got boring i know look i like the

1191
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:21,920
first and second season because they

1192
00:44:25,349 --> 00:44:23,920
were all internally consistent and also

1193
00:44:26,870 --> 00:44:25,359
the love interest too now what if you

1194
00:44:28,950 --> 00:44:26,880
had two people going at each other like

1195
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,960
rabbits like they sort of were towards

1196
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,480
the end there that that wouldn't be a

1197
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,400
good thing in the workplace but okay

1198
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:34,160
well i suspect that something would be

1199
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:36,000
said at a managerial level it'll

1200
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,760
definitely take away from the whole

1201
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:39,440
solving of the case hey we probably just

1202
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:41,200
put our finger on why they didn't solve

1203
00:44:44,550 --> 00:44:42,720
the case because they're too busy with a

1204
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:44,560
sexual tension thing going on look

1205
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:47,839
sexual tension ruins everything

1206
00:44:51,109 --> 00:44:49,200
so what do you think about different

1207
00:44:53,349 --> 00:44:51,119
sorts of intuition then like they talk

1208
00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:53,359
about mother's intuition

1209
00:44:57,910 --> 00:44:55,599
i think it's i think it's hokum i think

1210
00:45:00,069 --> 00:44:57,920
mother's intuition comes from

1211
00:45:02,069 --> 00:45:00,079
the fact that they are so

1212
00:45:03,829 --> 00:45:02,079
that whole mother's instinct that whole

1213
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:03,839
woman's intuition that whole mother's

1214
00:45:07,349 --> 00:45:05,680
intuition basically

1215
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,359
is by using

1216
00:45:11,030 --> 00:45:09,200
the odd occasion where they may have

1217
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,040
been right about the fact that the child

1218
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,440
is about to run into a window with the

1219
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,200
20 other times when they haven't caught

1220
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:17,440
them in time when they fell off a chair

1221
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:18,960
so they said hold up yeah name the

1222
00:45:23,750 --> 00:45:21,280
logical fallacy

1223
00:45:25,430 --> 00:45:23,760
now as a canberra skeptic and you guys

1224
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:25,440
are hosting the big skeptics conference

1225
00:45:29,270 --> 00:45:27,200
later in the year what do you make of

1226
00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:29,280
our sydney gathering here tonight

1227
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:31,520
this is my first sydney gathering and

1228
00:45:36,550 --> 00:45:34,640
it's very it's very good actually um a

1229
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:36,560
lot of people who i'm just meeting for

1230
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:39,200
the first time who i've spoken to online

1231
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,440
so but i really enjoy the dynamic

1232
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:43,200
environment with alcohol how many times

1233
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,960
have we chatted on pet life so many

1234
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,040
times now yes we have and it feels like

1235
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,599
i already know you i know it's like that

1236
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,760
yeah but i i think with the great thing

1237
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:53,920
about the skeptical movement is that

1238
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,240
people it's like a community in a way

1239
00:46:00,069 --> 00:45:58,240
people come together from all

1240
00:46:01,750 --> 00:46:00,079
areas of the country in all areas of the

1241
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:01,760
world and you cannot ever see them and

1242
00:46:06,390 --> 00:46:04,079
not ever meet them but the fact that we

1243
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:06,400
all we're all sharing ideas and we're

1244
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:07,599
all sharing

1245
00:46:11,910 --> 00:46:09,920
the one you know the one common goal is

1246
00:46:13,109 --> 00:46:11,920
to you know seek the evidence seek the

1247
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:13,119
truth and

1248
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,640
sort of enlightened

1249
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,079
i hate to use that word because it's a

1250
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,160
buzzword but it sort of brings everyone

1251
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:20,240
together so we all have that sort of

1252
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,680
thing where we can understand where

1253
00:46:25,910 --> 00:46:23,760
we're coming from we're so i'm really

1254
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:25,920
enjoying the evening

1255
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:27,280
well we're here in one of the busier

1256
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,800
corners and i will have to apologize

1257
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:30,240
about the background noise because

1258
00:46:32,470 --> 00:46:31,440
everyone's i

1259
00:46:33,990 --> 00:46:32,480
i think they're doing a scene from the

1260
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:34,000
hobbit behind us it's fantastic it's

1261
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,000
like a radio play um now you're over

1262
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:38,160
here in the controversial corner in the

1263
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,359
bohemian corner what is intuition son

1264
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:45,839
it's pattern recognition

1265
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,200
essentially you've seen it all before so

1266
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:51,119
when you see something that looks kind

1267
00:46:54,550 --> 00:46:52,720
of like it you associate it with

1268
00:46:56,309 --> 00:46:54,560
something you've already experienced so

1269
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,319
why can't older people pick up better

1270
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:59,119
than younger people alzheimer's

1271
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,640
well i think that's your answer there so

1272
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:02,160
have you got a bit of an idea what

1273
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:05,200
intuition is um i don't know there's

1274
00:47:08,790 --> 00:47:06,640
stuff about

1275
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:08,800
we actually have more neural tissue in

1276
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:11,680
our gut than uh many species have in

1277
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:13,280
their brains so it could be something in

1278
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:16,960
our gut brain speaking to our head brain

1279
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:18,480
that doesn't smell funny that smells

1280
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:19,760
funny so i'm not gonna have anything of

1281
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:22,720
it okay that's not not a bad idea there

1282
00:47:26,390 --> 00:47:24,880
i know i did no jessica's still eating

1283
00:47:27,670 --> 00:47:26,400
something now what i've got over there

1284
00:47:29,190 --> 00:47:27,680
in the corner you got any intuition

1285
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:29,200
going on there

1286
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:31,520
oh intuition no intuition is just sort

1287
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:34,640
of experience and training

1288
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:35,680
there we go

1289
00:47:42,069 --> 00:47:39,200
yeah you and your ass smarties

1290
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:43,750
now now look you might have heard some

1291
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,960
loud people in the background of the

1292
00:47:48,309 --> 00:47:46,400
last interview well there's these guys

1293
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:48,319
here going off what scene were you

1294
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,470
i was thinking it might have been king

1295
00:47:58,309 --> 00:47:56,480
kong for a moment the scene don't tell

1296
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,319
me about no no no

1297
00:48:02,309 --> 00:48:00,960
i'm a fan of the 80s jessica uh jessica

1298
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:02,319
lang version whatever it is the one that

1299
00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:04,800
was in the the 80s king kong one i much

1300
00:48:09,270 --> 00:48:07,280
prefer the original oh well fair enough

1301
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:09,280
then okay well before we figured out

1302
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,280
what exactly did kill the beast and i

1303
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,599
suspect it was alcohol um what do you

1304
00:48:17,670 --> 00:48:15,680
think is intuition what do you think it

1305
00:48:19,349 --> 00:48:17,680
is yeah it's mostly [\h__\h] okay well

1306
00:48:21,670 --> 00:48:19,359
what you reckon people make it up after

1307
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:21,680
the fact well

1308
00:48:25,030 --> 00:48:23,520
it's that classic thing it's intuition

1309
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:25,040
if it comes right if it's not it was it

1310
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:26,240
was a guess

1311
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:29,119
and if it wasn't it's uh yeah yeah okay

1312
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:30,800
yeah so that's a pretty to the point

1313
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,480
answer now what do you think you agree

1314
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,119
with our esteemed colleague here really

1315
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:36,800
depends on what you're calling intuition

1316
00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:38,319
if it's some sort of psychic ability

1317
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:40,000
then no but if it's if you're picking up

1318
00:48:43,109 --> 00:48:41,520
on subconscious cues and you're not

1319
00:48:45,030 --> 00:48:43,119
aware of it then you might be putting a

1320
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:45,040
picture together which might turn out to

1321
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:46,000
be right

1322
00:48:47,910 --> 00:48:46,720
but

1323
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,920
i'm sort of thinking

1324
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:49,200
something you think is going to happen

1325
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:54,470
you know someone's going to cheat you

1326
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:55,760
they'll probably do it again such

1327
00:48:59,190 --> 00:48:57,680
intuition or just common sense that's

1328
00:49:02,549 --> 00:48:59,200
right now is there such a thing as

1329
00:49:04,309 --> 00:49:02,559
mother's intuition women's intuition

1330
00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:04,319
um again it depends how you define it if

1331
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,760
it's you know some special psychic

1332
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:07,520
ability then no

1333
00:49:11,670 --> 00:49:09,359
you never hear about transsexual

1334
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:11,680
intuition do you that is never mentioned

1335
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:13,920
and i think that's right

1336
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:15,119
yeah i guess i'm just being the right

1337
00:49:17,910 --> 00:49:16,480
people but i reckon that's just that's

1338
00:49:19,750 --> 00:49:17,920
just some sort of prejudice going on in

1339
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:19,760
our society let's go see that i want to

1340
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:22,079
see transsexual intuition well there is

1341
00:49:26,390 --> 00:49:24,800
gaydar yeah there is gaydar but no

1342
00:49:28,870 --> 00:49:26,400
that's a different that's a question for

1343
00:49:31,109 --> 00:49:28,880
another show

1344
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:31,119
look i'm at the table nearest the bar so

1345
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:32,240
of course you're going to find the usual

1346
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:33,839
suspects there how are you this evening

1347
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:36,319
sir i'm all right thank you now have you

1348
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,559
had any intuition experiences lately and

1349
00:49:42,790 --> 00:49:40,079
did you actually could you give us what

1350
00:49:45,670 --> 00:49:42,800
you think intuition is i can't say i've

1351
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,680
had any intuition experiences but

1352
00:49:49,030 --> 00:49:47,200
i understand

1353
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:49,040
intuition is

1354
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:50,880
your brain working on the subconscious

1355
00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:53,680
level with information that it has

1356
00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:56,640
and it has obtained through the senses

1357
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,680
and

1358
00:50:00,630 --> 00:49:59,280
i've heard it said that if you rely on

1359
00:50:01,430 --> 00:50:00,640
your intuition

1360
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:01,440
uh

1361
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:03,839
it's more reliable than what you

1362
00:50:08,950 --> 00:50:05,440
what some people think

1363
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:08,960
but isn't it especially relying on it's

1364
00:50:13,750 --> 00:50:11,040
the brain still working in a normal way

1365
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:13,760
but below the conscious and i've had

1366
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,200
people say that

1367
00:50:19,829 --> 00:50:17,280
um if you try to

1368
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:19,839
don't deny the intuition

1369
00:50:23,030 --> 00:50:21,280
and sort of

1370
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,040
make reasoned decisions which as a

1371
00:50:27,270 --> 00:50:24,960
skeptic i would have thought it was the

1372
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:27,280
case they've done experiments and you've

1373
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,559
actually it's actually some in some

1374
00:50:32,390 --> 00:50:30,720
cases it's turned out worse than

1375
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:32,400
if people have followed their intuition

1376
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:34,559
they've made the correct decision but

1377
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,160
there's nothing supernatural or spooky

1378
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,920
about it from what i understand it's the

1379
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,200
brain

1380
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,880
actually crunching

1381
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:42,800
the information that it's absorbed over

1382
00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:45,440
time well i don't know it could be wrong

1383
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,200
that's a good working definition for me

1384
00:50:50,470 --> 00:50:48,880
and what about you sir you're smiling

1385
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:50,480
you're laughing are you disagreeing with

1386
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,680
him is there some sort we've got an

1387
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:53,440
intellectual impasse going on here what

1388
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,200
do you think intuition is mr greenshirt

1389
00:51:02,230 --> 00:50:59,760
i think john is right that there is

1390
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:02,240
unconscious processing going on but

1391
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,520
i think you have to be really careful

1392
00:51:06,710 --> 00:51:05,280
there's a lot of voices getting going

1393
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,720
for attention in your mind lots of

1394
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:08,880
different thoughts and

1395
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:10,400
instead of tuning into some very

1396
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:12,400
sophisticated unconscious reasoning you

1397
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:14,079
could just be going into the last

1398
00:51:17,829 --> 00:51:15,760
suggestion somebody gave you or

1399
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,839
something you read on the newspaper or

1400
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,680
just you know just listening to your gut

1401
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:21,599
as the republicans would have it or

1402
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:23,359
stephen colbert would have it

1403
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:24,880
doesn't always give you the right answer

1404
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,920
so you've got to be careful you're not

1405
00:51:29,349 --> 00:51:27,760
misled

1406
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,359
and so did you think that that

1407
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:31,200
effectively is what intuition is but you

1408
00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,280
might just hear the wrong thing yeah

1409
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:34,800
yeah so i think the unconscious

1410
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:36,559
reasoning is there isn't i think that's

1411
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:38,079
real intuition but i think you can be

1412
00:51:41,190 --> 00:51:39,520
fooled by

1413
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:41,200
suggestions given to you earlier so

1414
00:51:44,549 --> 00:51:43,119
you've got a it's a skill i think an art

1415
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:44,559
to be able to listen to the right voice

1416
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:46,160
in your head

1417
00:51:49,349 --> 00:51:47,440
well i think you should listen to the

1418
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,359
voice of peter hi peter how are you and

1419
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:51,040
first of all how is your health like a

1420
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:52,160
lot of the skeptics have been wondering

1421
00:51:56,150 --> 00:51:54,400
how your health's been fine i have still

1422
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,160
my health is fine i still have a very

1423
00:52:01,589 --> 00:51:58,800
sore ankle which i broke last year at

1424
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:01,599
skeptic camp uh i know now that i should

1425
00:52:06,470 --> 00:52:03,839
stay away from things because i hurt my

1426
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:06,480
foot at ham i hurt my foot at skeptic

1427
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:08,240
camp i hurt my foot at the atheist

1428
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:09,839
conference and i fell over and hurt

1429
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:11,040
myself and couldn't much in the mardi

1430
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:13,119
gras so i figured that

1431
00:52:16,549 --> 00:52:14,960
god is telling me a message to stay away

1432
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,559
from these health and atheists and

1433
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:18,240
people like that and we might even let

1434
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:19,280
you know what happened to him when he

1435
00:52:22,230 --> 00:52:20,960
went to sexpo

1436
00:52:24,390 --> 00:52:22,240
oh look that's a different story

1437
00:52:26,069 --> 00:52:24,400
altogether so well maybe some intuition

1438
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:26,079
might help you here what do you think

1439
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:28,079
intuition is mr break my foot every time

1440
00:52:32,230 --> 00:52:30,079
i walk out the door

1441
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:32,240
i think um i think it's basically what

1442
00:52:36,390 --> 00:52:34,160
john was saying it's um

1443
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:36,400
it's an unconscious assessment of things

1444
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:37,760
that you know

1445
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:38,800
um

1446
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:41,520
experience and background and so forth

1447
00:52:46,230 --> 00:52:44,240
you think that you are just basically

1448
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:46,240
guessing at things i think most people

1449
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:47,760
are actually using some kind of evidence

1450
00:52:51,109 --> 00:52:50,160
that they've gathered over time but also

1451
00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:51,119
um

1452
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,800
it's correct that if you you can be

1453
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:54,000
influenced by what people are telling

1454
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,920
you what you've heard where you are the

1455
00:53:00,390 --> 00:52:57,520
circumstances around you

1456
00:53:02,150 --> 00:53:00,400
i don't think that it's an invalid thing

1457
00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:02,160
but i just you just shouldn't rely on it

1458
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,240
all the time of saying gee it feels

1459
00:53:08,309 --> 00:53:06,400
right like i used to i used to be a

1460
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,319
gambler on the horses i was actually

1461
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:10,319
successful at it but i can guarantee you

1462
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:12,079
i never simply said gee i think that

1463
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,119
course is going to win to the like the

1464
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:15,040
color of the jockeys until it was a

1465
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:17,200
matter of sitting down and working out

1466
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,200
where they'd run before what the form

1467
00:53:23,190 --> 00:53:21,359
was and so forth there was no intuition

1468
00:53:24,230 --> 00:53:23,200
at all the intuition were the people who

1469
00:53:26,790 --> 00:53:24,240
were throwing the money at the

1470
00:53:27,990 --> 00:53:26,800
bookmakers and paying for the bentleys

1471
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:28,000
and the very small numbers that were

1472
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,599
making money

1473
00:53:33,190 --> 00:53:31,599
but we might have one intuitive bet on a

1474
00:53:34,390 --> 00:53:33,200
saturday and that with the end of the

1475
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:34,400
day we had a couple of bucks left in

1476
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:36,079
your pocket and you'd say oh yeah why

1477
00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:36,880
not

1478
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,040
but uh i think it's

1479
00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:41,280
it's a sort of it's a form of guesswork

1480
00:53:46,710 --> 00:53:43,040
but in most cases i think it's informed

1481
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:46,720
by your experience your knowledge and

1482
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:48,000
also what's going on around you at the

1483
00:53:50,230 --> 00:53:48,880
time

1484
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:50,240
and while i've got to hear peter too we

1485
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:52,079
should give a big plug to a channel that

1486
00:53:55,589 --> 00:53:53,760
most people that have got foxtel don't

1487
00:53:57,430 --> 00:53:55,599
even look at usually and that's the

1488
00:53:58,230 --> 00:53:57,440
public access channel that's on there

1489
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:58,240
because

1490
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,240
one day i saw you on there i saw you

1491
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:02,640
giving a talk to the canberra skeptics

1492
00:54:07,109 --> 00:54:04,960
and and i didn't know what was going on

1493
00:54:08,790 --> 00:54:07,119
um and look they have stuff like that on

1494
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,800
there all the time what was that

1495
00:54:11,670 --> 00:54:10,319
channel and what were you doing on

1496
00:54:13,589 --> 00:54:11,680
foxtop

1497
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:13,599
i've actually never seen that but every

1498
00:54:17,190 --> 00:54:14,960
now and then people send me emails

1499
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:17,200
saying i just saw you on television

1500
00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:18,720
in fact i got an email this week from a

1501
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,480
person who was in primary school with my

1502
00:54:24,309 --> 00:54:21,599
brother

1503
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,319
way back in the dark ages who said i saw

1504
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,160
you on television

1505
00:54:30,309 --> 00:54:28,079
it was a talk on the um uh coming

1506
00:54:32,069 --> 00:54:30,319
apocalypse it was the final ever last

1507
00:54:33,349 --> 00:54:32,079
ever talk of canberra skeptics to be

1508
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:33,359
given before the end of the world on

1509
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:35,280
december 21st last year just remember

1510
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,040
that it's the apac channel it's the

1511
00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:39,040
australian public affairs channel that's

1512
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:40,640
what it's called apac channel and

1513
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:42,319
usually it's some think tank from the

1514
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:44,079
menzies institute or something but

1515
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,359
occasionally you get you get some

1516
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:47,040
conspiracy people on there it can go

1517
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:48,720
nutty it's great

1518
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,480
so i always get told about it after i

1519
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:52,800
was just on and people say we just saw

1520
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:54,559
you on television and say good can you

1521
00:54:59,829 --> 00:54:56,960
please actually ring me when i appear

1522
00:55:02,069 --> 00:54:59,839
and let me know so i can rush to the tv

1523
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:02,079
yes it was um they filmed basically a

1524
00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:03,920
talk i gave to about the coming

1525
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:06,000
apocalypse and what was going to happen

1526
00:55:10,470 --> 00:55:08,160
and not happen on december 21st

1527
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:10,480
and uh and uh did you have a big

1528
00:55:15,910 --> 00:55:12,960
ninja fest when it didn't happen and who

1529
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:15,920
did you need to uh

1530
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:18,079
we actually had actually was i was that

1531
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:20,160
night with western sydney freethinkers

1532
00:55:23,349 --> 00:55:21,680
we had a night out we had to wait till

1533
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,359
the exact time that happened which i

1534
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:24,960
think was 11 minutes past sometime in

1535
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:25,920
the night

1536
00:55:29,670 --> 00:55:28,079
and uh we all raised a glass to the end

1537
00:55:32,309 --> 00:55:29,680
of the world and

1538
00:55:33,270 --> 00:55:32,319
because we'd all survived but we were a

1539
00:55:34,549 --> 00:55:33,280
little bit

1540
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,559
fearful about it now there's a bit of

1541
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:37,280
intuition there saying maybe it might

1542
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:39,200
maybe it's right you know but

1543
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:40,800
it's what happens with every skeptic

1544
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,559
thing there's just that little fraction

1545
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:44,559
of a percent that the aliens are going

1546
00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:46,640
to land on the white house lawn or that

1547
00:55:49,589 --> 00:55:47,920
you know some astrology thing is going

1548
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,599
to be proven true and then you're going

1549
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:51,040
to have to walk with your pants down

1550
00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:52,640
around your ankle down pit street for a

1551
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:53,760
bet

1552
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:56,480
yes that's right

1553
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:59,119
i try not to make bits like that

1554
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,440
i make them constantly

1555
00:56:05,109 --> 00:56:03,520
but yes you're right i've actually

1556
00:56:06,630 --> 00:56:05,119
figured richard said earlier i would

1557
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:06,640
love to see some of this paranormal

1558
00:56:09,589 --> 00:56:07,680
stuff

1559
00:56:11,589 --> 00:56:09,599
what how would you feel if an alien

1560
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,599
landed in your backyard i said i'd feel

1561
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:13,760
terrific and i start selling tickets but

1562
00:56:16,470 --> 00:56:15,280
uh

1563
00:56:18,870 --> 00:56:16,480
now i live in the blue mountains we'll

1564
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,880
be full of strange animals and panthers

1565
00:56:21,270 --> 00:56:20,000
and things

1566
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:21,280
if they find a panther in the blue

1567
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:22,799
mountains i'm going to think it's

1568
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,920
terrific

1569
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,359
i'm not going to think it's it hasn't

1570
00:56:29,990 --> 00:56:27,440
destroyed my view of life we've found

1571
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:30,000
something that we didn't know before

1572
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:32,000
uh i'm i'm not too sure about aliens

1573
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,960
landing

1574
00:56:36,069 --> 00:56:34,480
and i'm not too sure about astrology

1575
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:36,079
being proved true

1576
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:38,880
but yeah if it happens once it happens

1577
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,319
now look i know richard will probably

1578
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:42,160
cut this out but here i go because i

1579
00:56:46,390 --> 00:56:44,480
know that okay the alien hypothesis is

1580
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:46,400
just one i would go for the ultra

1581
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,000
terrestrials which has been they've been

1582
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,319
here all the time they just don't want

1583
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:51,760
to be seen from time to time there's

1584
00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:54,000
also the time traveler hypothesis and

1585
00:56:57,829 --> 00:56:55,520
there's also the other dimension

1586
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:57,839
hypothesis see i think thinking of just

1587
00:57:01,990 --> 00:57:00,000
extraterrestrials narrow it's narrow

1588
00:57:03,750 --> 00:57:02,000
thinking well i think it is i mean time

1589
00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:03,760
travel is far more likely

1590
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:04,720
or they're going to come out of the

1591
00:57:07,430 --> 00:57:05,920
underground bases that live under the

1592
00:57:08,950 --> 00:57:07,440
blue mountains where i live but they're

1593
00:57:10,710 --> 00:57:08,960
there now

1594
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,720
they're just waiting

1595
00:57:13,910 --> 00:57:12,559
uh it was

1596
00:57:15,349 --> 00:57:13,920
a decent bush fighter coming through

1597
00:57:16,789 --> 00:57:15,359
what are they waiting for

1598
00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:16,799
i think there's some bushfires it's like

1599
00:57:21,910 --> 00:57:19,520
the the start of um of the war of the

1600
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:21,920
worlds by h.d witness

1601
00:57:24,950 --> 00:57:23,440
that they were watching

1602
00:57:26,470 --> 00:57:24,960
they were waiting

1603
00:57:28,390 --> 00:57:26,480
they're waiting for the right time to

1604
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:28,400
come i see

1605
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:29,599
okay well while they're doing that we

1606
00:57:34,309 --> 00:57:31,280
might as well have a drink pete

1607
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,319
sounds like an excellent idea

1608
00:57:38,150 --> 00:57:36,559
i'm here with iran now iran is a man who

1609
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:38,160
is very mysterious he

1610
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:39,599
is actually working secretly with the

1611
00:57:42,549 --> 00:57:41,280
mossad i believe because i reckon you'd

1612
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:42,559
be the perfect plant you'd be the

1613
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:45,200
perfect sleeper mossad cell guy i'm

1614
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:47,119
sorry i can't talk about it told you i

1615
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,280
was right now okay but what about

1616
00:57:54,069 --> 00:57:51,520
intuition iran what do you think

1617
00:57:55,829 --> 00:57:54,079
intuition is

1618
00:57:57,589 --> 00:57:55,839
first of all we have to assume that it

1619
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:57,599
exists but um

1620
00:58:01,750 --> 00:58:00,559
but i think some people do have a

1621
00:58:05,750 --> 00:58:01,760
level of

1622
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:05,760
about

1623
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:08,400
things that could happen to people so i

1624
00:58:11,990 --> 00:58:09,920
don't think i don't think education

1625
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:12,000
really works when it comes to

1626
00:58:14,630 --> 00:58:12,960
um

1627
00:58:16,309 --> 00:58:14,640
coming up with ideas about what might

1628
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,319
happen in nature or things like that i

1629
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:18,160
think education is more about things

1630
00:58:22,150 --> 00:58:20,000
that might happen to people

1631
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:22,160
so i think for example parents very

1632
00:58:26,710 --> 00:58:24,960
often have intuition about their kids

1633
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:26,720
but it comes from familiarity you know

1634
00:58:29,190 --> 00:58:27,920
what your kids will do in certain

1635
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:29,200
situations

1636
00:58:32,870 --> 00:58:30,000
so

1637
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:32,880
going to do it of course you knew you're

1638
00:58:36,549 --> 00:58:33,920
going to do you've seen them in that

1639
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:36,559
situation a thousand times before

1640
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:38,960
so do you think it is just merely a

1641
00:58:42,230 --> 00:58:40,640
future an extrapolation of what will

1642
00:58:43,990 --> 00:58:42,240
happen in the future based purely on

1643
00:58:44,950 --> 00:58:44,000
what you remember from the past is that

1644
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:44,960
all

1645
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:47,280
um i think it probably is

1646
00:58:49,589 --> 00:58:48,000
but

1647
00:58:51,829 --> 00:58:49,599
there's uh you develop a certain level

1648
00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:51,839
of heuristics you you don't you don't

1649
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:53,599
think about it's too deep you don't

1650
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:55,200
think about most things too deeply you

1651
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,880
just come up with an idea you have to

1652
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,079
make decisions very quickly there's

1653
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:00,480
actually a book by uh daniel kahneman

1654
00:59:04,710 --> 00:59:02,640
who talks about fast thinking and slow

1655
00:59:07,109 --> 00:59:04,720
thinking and this is the fast thinking

1656
00:59:09,990 --> 00:59:07,119
part where your brain doesn't makes uh

1657
00:59:11,910 --> 00:59:10,000
unconscious uh or subconscious decisions

1658
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,920
based on heuristics and it's not with

1659
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:13,520
the full full amount of information and

1660
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:14,880
definitely without being conscious of

1661
00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:16,720
all the information you just make those

1662
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:18,640
decisions and that's what basically in

1663
00:59:24,710 --> 00:59:22,400
my opinion um intuition is now

1664
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:24,720
i i i'd like to quote um

1665
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:26,160
richard feynman

1666
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:31,440
why he was asked why quantum mechanics

1667
00:59:35,670 --> 00:59:33,359
is so counter-intuitive

1668
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,680
so there is the intuition coming in now

1669
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,359
he also had the great quote that if you

1670
00:59:40,710 --> 00:59:39,119
say you understand in quantum mechanics

1671
00:59:42,789 --> 00:59:40,720
you don't clearly do not understand

1672
00:59:43,829 --> 00:59:42,799
quantum mechanics absolutely so yes why

1673
00:59:45,589 --> 00:59:43,839
is quantum mechanics so

1674
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:45,599
counter-intuitive it's not just

1675
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,200
unintuitive it's counterintuitive it

1676
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,960
works against everything we know well i

1677
00:59:52,150 --> 00:59:50,400
can answer that because obviously we are

1678
00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:52,160
living in some sort of simulation

1679
00:59:55,829 --> 00:59:54,160
designed by and other people from

1680
00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:55,839
another realm and what we perceive as

1681
00:59:59,510 --> 00:59:57,760
being normal stuff is normal stuff but

1682
01:00:01,270 --> 00:59:59,520
the actual quantum is what is powering

1683
01:00:02,789 --> 01:00:01,280
the game the hologram the reality in

1684
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:02,799
which we live you forgot to mention that

1685
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:05,119
those who designed the game they're also

1686
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:05,760
in

1687
01:00:11,349 --> 01:00:09,280
a simulation but anyway

1688
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:11,359
it's it's turtles all the way down

1689
01:00:14,870 --> 01:00:13,200
there's a great movie called room 13 or

1690
01:00:17,270 --> 01:00:14,880
level 13 or something check that movie

1691
01:00:19,270 --> 01:00:17,280
out but continue on yeah so what richard

1692
01:00:21,270 --> 01:00:19,280
feynman said was the reason it's so

1693
01:00:23,030 --> 01:00:21,280
country intuitive has got nothing to do

1694
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:23,040
with quantum mechanics it's to do with

1695
01:00:28,789 --> 01:00:26,400
us we evolved intuition where

1696
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:28,799
intuition was um developed

1697
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:31,280
through evolution by us learning to

1698
01:00:35,990 --> 01:00:32,640
understand that the russell of the

1699
01:00:37,829 --> 01:00:36,000
leaves is either wind or an animal

1700
01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:37,839
behind them or you know

1701
01:00:42,470 --> 01:00:39,839
stuff like that you know we we we

1702
01:00:44,630 --> 01:00:42,480
learned we evolved intuition in the

1703
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:44,640
macro world that we live in

1704
01:00:48,950 --> 01:00:47,359
if we had evolved in a size that allows

1705
01:00:50,950 --> 01:00:48,960
to see what happens at a quantum level

1706
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,960
we would be intuitive about that level

1707
01:00:55,109 --> 01:00:52,640
but we don't see that we don't need to

1708
01:00:56,710 --> 01:00:55,119
be intuitive about that so intuition is

1709
01:00:59,349 --> 01:00:56,720
those rules of thumb that have developed

1710
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,359
in us through evolution and experience

1711
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,200
and personal experience to simply make

1712
01:01:04,789 --> 01:01:03,119
decisions very very quickly

1713
01:01:06,870 --> 01:01:04,799
is is there something from intuition

1714
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:06,880
that you know you won't do or get

1715
01:01:11,109 --> 01:01:09,040
involved in and

1716
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:11,119
i'm not gonna i mean for me uh drinking

1717
01:01:15,430 --> 01:01:13,440
lambushka that is something that from

1718
01:01:17,589 --> 01:01:15,440
intuition in the past i know that

1719
01:01:18,789 --> 01:01:17,599
drinking lambrushka can often not end

1720
01:01:19,910 --> 01:01:18,799
well

1721
01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:19,920
um

1722
01:01:23,589 --> 01:01:22,000
talk about my time at the mossad because

1723
01:01:25,510 --> 01:01:23,599
you know what will happen if i do that

1724
01:01:27,030 --> 01:01:25,520
that's true yeah we're good also there's

1725
01:01:28,150 --> 01:01:27,040
a certain type i don't know maybe when

1726
01:01:29,589 --> 01:01:28,160
you're on the circuit when you were

1727
01:01:31,270 --> 01:01:29,599
dating around because you're a damn

1728
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:31,280
good-looking man when you were dating

1729
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:33,119
there's a kind of person you know from

1730
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:35,040
one look not to talk to or even get

1731
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,559
involved with even though they may seem

1732
01:01:39,670 --> 01:01:38,400
very attractive and quite attractive

1733
01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:39,680
there's just something about them you

1734
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:41,520
know you shouldn't get involved with do

1735
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:42,799
you remember that day from when you were

1736
01:01:48,549 --> 01:01:45,440
dating back in the day no

1737
01:01:52,069 --> 01:01:50,630
well we've got the the youngest member

1738
01:01:54,470 --> 01:01:52,079
here at the in the dinner section what's

1739
01:01:57,030 --> 01:01:54,480
your name rebecca and how old are you

1740
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:57,040
i'm 12. okay now in your 12 years on

1741
01:02:00,390 --> 01:01:58,720
this planet what do you think intuition

1742
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:00,400
is is there a is there something that

1743
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:02,559
what's the last time you went uh oh i'm

1744
01:02:05,589 --> 01:02:04,000
not going to get into that or talk to

1745
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:05,599
that person and why do you think you

1746
01:02:09,750 --> 01:02:06,799
thought that way

1747
01:02:11,349 --> 01:02:09,760
um well my friends told me like say

1748
01:02:13,349 --> 01:02:11,359
to not go in the back compartment of the

1749
01:02:15,589 --> 01:02:13,359
chain on the way home because some

1750
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:15,599
people where people like don't look up

1751
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:17,520
at them because then they might have a

1752
01:02:21,910 --> 01:02:19,760
chicken and talk to you so don't make

1753
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,920
eye contact that it's in the simpsons

1754
01:02:25,109 --> 01:02:23,440
and it's actually true in life as well

1755
01:02:26,710 --> 01:02:25,119
there's some people you should back away

1756
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:26,720
from not making eye contact that's a

1757
01:02:30,549 --> 01:02:28,960
good debt that's good advice

1758
01:02:32,309 --> 01:02:30,559
you've got street smarts there's a

1759
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:32,319
certain a certain vibe or something that

1760
01:02:37,829 --> 01:02:35,359
they exude that that you know but not

1761
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:37,839
yeah like sometimes people just it's in

1762
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:39,520
the way that people kind of move like

1763
01:02:43,750 --> 01:02:41,839
you can kind of tell like you see them

1764
01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:43,760
as a really outgoing person on the way

1765
01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:46,400
they stand or like a really um under the

1766
01:02:52,309 --> 01:02:49,520
weather kind of like afraid of life kind

1767
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:52,319
of person who's not really

1768
01:02:55,349 --> 01:02:53,760
out there and

1769
01:02:56,789 --> 01:02:55,359
there's an emo person who's looking at

1770
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:56,799
the ground all the time and doesn't see

1771
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:59,119
anybody ever yeah

1772
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:01,680
yeah sometimes people like that but

1773
01:03:05,990 --> 01:03:03,920
that's okay yeah look intuition is very

1774
01:03:08,309 --> 01:03:06,000
important and i think you've got it

1775
01:03:09,990 --> 01:03:08,319
thank you

1776
01:03:11,910 --> 01:03:10,000
now we're here with our aeronautics uh

1777
01:03:14,549 --> 01:03:11,920
correspondent for skeptic zone who we

1778
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:14,559
got mr robin hilliard robin you're great

1779
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:16,079
in fact i think there isn't an episode

1780
01:03:19,670 --> 01:03:18,319
of flying upside down in the plane dying

1781
01:03:22,549 --> 01:03:19,680
that you haven't seen what about

1782
01:03:24,549 --> 01:03:22,559
intuition would intuition play any part

1783
01:03:27,029 --> 01:03:24,559
as a pilot

1784
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:27,039
i have experienced intuition myself of

1785
01:03:30,950 --> 01:03:28,880
something being that the intuition that

1786
01:03:32,870 --> 01:03:30,960
something was wrong and turned around

1787
01:03:35,349 --> 01:03:32,880
and got a plane back to an airfield

1788
01:03:36,630 --> 01:03:35,359
before it the engine stopped so yes so

1789
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:36,640
how did you know the engine was about to

1790
01:03:39,190 --> 01:03:37,839
go

1791
01:03:40,950 --> 01:03:39,200
um i

1792
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:40,960
i summed up all the things that were

1793
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:43,359
working okay and then rated that against

1794
01:03:47,109 --> 01:03:45,440
the things that weren't going okay and i

1795
01:03:47,990 --> 01:03:47,119
thought that's not enough things going

1796
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:48,000
okay

1797
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:51,039
so i i turned around at that point

1798
01:03:53,990 --> 01:03:52,559
no i think i i think this is probably a

1799
01:03:56,309 --> 01:03:54,000
good example i mean i've read the

1800
01:03:59,190 --> 01:03:56,319
malcolm gladwell sort of books and so i

1801
01:04:00,710 --> 01:03:59,200
sort of have a bit of a i have a so i've

1802
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:00,720
read a bit about this and i sort of

1803
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,440
agree that intuition is that which you

1804
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:05,280
don't it's a decision that you make

1805
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:08,000
subconsciously um based on learned

1806
01:04:11,349 --> 01:04:09,440
experience there's nothing nothing

1807
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,359
paranormal about it it's probably more

1808
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:13,200
the neural networks in your brain just

1809
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,520
sort of triggering enough of a learned

1810
01:04:19,349 --> 01:04:17,359
response and you paying attention to

1811
01:04:22,069 --> 01:04:19,359
that without having come consciously to

1812
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:22,079
that to that decision yourself now if

1813
01:04:25,190 --> 01:04:23,680
someone's flying a much more complicated

1814
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:25,200
plan like one of the new airbus or

1815
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:26,799
something like that is there any room

1816
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,319
for intuition in that or is everything

1817
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,240
just so looked after that

1818
01:04:33,990 --> 01:04:31,920
you can't actually have intuition in a

1819
01:04:35,589 --> 01:04:34,000
complex machine like that

1820
01:04:38,150 --> 01:04:35,599
i think the pilots are there for the

1821
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,160
intuition although i'm sadly sometimes

1822
01:04:42,470 --> 01:04:40,319
like in the most recent airbus crashes

1823
01:04:44,710 --> 01:04:42,480
they've sort of failed in that regard

1824
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:44,720
very very very tragically but um

1825
01:04:47,990 --> 01:04:46,480
no i think that's why that's why you're

1826
01:04:49,910 --> 01:04:48,000
there because at the end of the day it's

1827
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:49,920
a system and the system can't get

1828
01:04:54,789 --> 01:04:52,000
creative and you need the intuition

1829
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:54,799
there to actually to actually say

1830
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:56,160
because it's because you have to make

1831
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:57,280
those it's for the split second

1832
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:59,599
decisions that you can't make in a

1833
01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:01,359
system it's like when they're doing it

1834
01:05:07,029 --> 01:05:04,000
doing the hudson the hudson landing and

1835
01:05:08,710 --> 01:05:07,039
the guy forgot to seal off the uh the

1836
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,720
watertight compartment for the luggage

1837
01:05:11,910 --> 01:05:10,400
and he's the guy who used to train

1838
01:05:13,029 --> 01:05:11,920
people to seal off the watertight

1839
01:05:15,190 --> 01:05:13,039
compartment for the luggage and he

1840
01:05:17,029 --> 01:05:15,200
forgot to do it i i find that amazing i

1841
01:05:19,109 --> 01:05:17,039
mean i imagine i couldn't do it but why

1842
01:05:21,349 --> 01:05:19,119
didn't he do it when that was yeah

1843
01:05:22,789 --> 01:05:21,359
i could easily understand forgetting

1844
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:22,799
forgetting things or not or not

1845
01:05:27,670 --> 01:05:25,359
realizing um not realizing that

1846
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:27,680
something was happening in in in my i

1847
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:29,599
mean i realized there was a crash at

1848
01:05:33,109 --> 01:05:31,760
canleyvale a few years back where they

1849
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:33,119
had to get back to

1850
01:05:36,470 --> 01:05:34,720
bankstown because all the other airports

1851
01:05:38,630 --> 01:05:36,480
had been closed by property developers

1852
01:05:39,829 --> 01:05:38,640
but um my crash was quite similar to

1853
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:39,839
them except they had two engines and

1854
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:41,760
they had the unbelievable bad luck of

1855
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,480
two engines failing at the same time but

1856
01:05:47,990 --> 01:05:46,000
for me all the instruments were actually

1857
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:48,000
saying that everything was okay and it's

1858
01:05:52,630 --> 01:05:50,559
only just summing up saying no but the

1859
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:52,640
airplane isn't climbing at the end of

1860
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:55,119
the day it's not performing and nothing

1861
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:57,839
in front of me um until later when we

1862
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,799
started

1863
01:06:01,430 --> 01:06:00,240
things that are definitely going wrong

1864
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:01,440
nothing in front of me told me anything

1865
01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:02,799
the oil's squirting on the windscreen

1866
01:06:07,190 --> 01:06:05,920
bit of a giveaway that was near the end

1867
01:06:09,589 --> 01:06:07,200
but it was oil you just weren't really

1868
01:06:11,750 --> 01:06:09,599
scared uh no that was that was that was

1869
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:11,760
definitely oil the front seal burst very

1870
01:06:14,789 --> 01:06:13,280
suddenly and it was fly and i was

1871
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:14,799
landing into the setting sun so that was

1872
01:06:18,870 --> 01:06:16,799
quite exciting but um but it just made

1873
01:06:20,789 --> 01:06:18,880
everything sort of like rosy haze

1874
01:06:22,950 --> 01:06:20,799
vaseline sort of thing it wasn't black

1875
01:06:25,109 --> 01:06:22,960
it wasn't like bugs bunny

1876
01:06:26,789 --> 01:06:25,119
it's never boring with you is it no no

1877
01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,799
and i have to later on i was just i have

1878
01:06:30,309 --> 01:06:29,039
to show you my photos from pearl harbor

1879
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:30,319
i know because i went there we went to

1880
01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:32,240
hawaii on the holidays so you'll want to

1881
01:06:58,870 --> 01:06:34,720
see some of my pearl harbor photos

1882
01:07:03,109 --> 01:07:01,109
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1883
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:03,119
zone and thank you once again for

1884
01:07:05,910 --> 01:07:04,799
maynard for lots of very interesting

1885
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:05,920
reports

1886
01:07:09,990 --> 01:07:08,319
on this week's show

1887
01:07:10,870 --> 01:07:10,000
of course you can check out maynard's

1888
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:10,880
other

1889
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:14,079
podcasts and activities at maynard.com

1890
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,240
dot a u where he has some interviews

1891
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:18,640
with more people from red dwarf

1892
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:22,000
and deep space nine star trek

1893
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:24,079
now that storm is still threatening to

1894
01:07:27,910 --> 01:07:26,480
storm outside the uh

1895
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:27,920
i think i'm in the eye of the storm at

1896
01:07:31,990 --> 01:07:29,839
the moment it's a little bit freaky

1897
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:32,000
now before i wrap up the show

1898
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:37,910
to visit the rationalist society of

1899
01:07:42,870 --> 01:07:39,680
australia and find out about the

1900
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:42,880
upcoming tour by sean faircloth

1901
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,960
australia and new zealand more

1902
01:07:48,309 --> 01:07:46,160
information

1903
01:07:50,630 --> 01:07:48,319
at the rationalist website

1904
01:07:52,950 --> 01:07:50,640
but for now with with heartfelt thanks

1905
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:52,960
to all those people who do chip in uh

1906
01:08:01,910 --> 01:07:59,910
with a dollar a week or a bit more

1907
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:01,920
thank you very much it's people like you

1908
01:08:05,270 --> 01:08:02,960
who help

1909
01:08:07,349 --> 01:08:05,280
make the show possible this is richard

1910
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:07,359
saunders signing off from sydney

1911
01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:14,069
you've been listening to the skeptic

1912
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:15,599
zone